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February 04, 2008

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Sevda

Hello;
I consider Jesus to be the Lord of the World. This is my faith. What is yours up to now after you have enough questioned? Do you believe that Moses really recieved 10 Commandments from God? Do you believe that Jesus really covered all the world's sin? Can our searches of the right answers break these principle laws of the God's life?
Thank you.

worth

Wow - you don't mince words, do you, Sevda? :)
I do believe that Moses received commandments from God, and that God wanted them shared directly with the Hebrews, and therefore had the words inscribed in stone somehow. Almost none of the people would have actually been able to read those words, as they could not read, but the words would have been read aloud to them.
I also believe that all, regardless of their sins, can enter the kingdom of Heaven (whatever that may be) through their faith in Jesus of Nazareth's life, death, and resurrection on earth, through their seeking forgiveness for those sins. And that this eternal life can only come through Jesus, who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
It is not just our right, but it is our duty, to search for God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, in the past and in the present. Not to prove or disprove anything, but so that we are doing all that we can do for our part in trying to know God, which is what God wants us to do. I have an occasional disagreement with a formerly Baptist, now non-denominational, friend over "faith and works," i.e. Catholics (like myself) believe that one reaches Heaven through both their faith and the way they live their life, while Protestants believe that faith alone is enough. What they don't quite grasp, however, is that if one truly does have that faith, then the works must necessarily follow; otherwise, the faith is not truly faith, but mere empty words in the vain hope that God will somehow be fooled. In other words, if one actually has faith in God, faith in Jesus, and believes and knows in their very being that Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life, then one will live and act accordingly, as instructed by the teachings of Jesus, many of which are captured in the New Testament. So that, it is not through the works themselves that one gains entry, but through the faith that commands the works, which clearly must not exist if the works are not there to bear it out.
End of sermon. I hope you're not sorry you asked.

If I may ask, where do you stand regarding those same questions?

krusty_da

Hi, Im an atheist, and really find interesting the discussions about divinity.
About what you wrote on faith vs trust, I think the difference isnt only that trust is in this world, as I see it, you must win trust, I.E., you can lend money to a friend, because you trust him/her, you know this person. On the other hand, I think that you can have faith in this world too, faith being trust without a tangible reason to reaaly trust, as is lending money to a total stranger, or buying a lottery ticket. Well, thats what I wanted to comment :)
(sorry for the grammatical mistakes, I speak spanish)

Tom Worth

Krusty_da, you make a nice point about faith in this world. Thats not the kind of faith that I write about, but it clearly does exist. What really makes an even greater impression though, is your observation that trust is won or earned, while faith is not. Faith is just there, or it isnt.
Thanks for thinking and writing!

bruce schultes

Faith. The stuff that turns an argument into knowledge. Emanual Kant, Aristotle, Einstein all have said that you cannot prove cause from effect via inductive means. Knowledge is aquired subjectively when an individual "believes" an induction (argument).

There are no compelling arguments as the word "proof" would seem to suggest. All "proof" is subjective and its value is like beauty, entirely in the eye of the beholder.

Yet, with the illusion of absolute proof there is also an illusion of absolute truth even though we hear the statement - there is no such thing as absolute truth -no absolute truth as science proports ... theory only. Forget the previous violation of the law of non-contradiction ... But I say, even without absolute proof there is indeed absolute truth. You are just going to have to take my word for it.

Its just that truth is not dependant upon any demonstrations - well or ill formed. It depends on faith.

It all becomes a question of authority - a question of whom you will serve. You may choose to serve the partical physicists and the medical anthropologists or the geneticists ...

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD (YHWH - Jesus Christ of Nazareth).

Reason is a great tool. Communication without logic is not possible. But we must understand - we all have come to the place of our current understanding by making great leaps. Statistical inference, Design of Experiment, Law of central Tendancy, Chi Squared ... prayer and fasting, Doxa and time in the scriptures, sudden revealing insights, revelation from God Himself.

All require that you believe someone outside your own skull. All worldviews are glued together by faith. I dare you to prove otherwise.

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Fides et Ratio

  • Fides et Ratio
    From Pope John Paul II's Encyclical Letter of the same name: Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth—in a word, to know himself—so that, by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves (cf. Ex 33:18; Ps 27:8-9; 63:2-3; Jn 14:8; 1 Jn 3:2). INTRODUCTION “KNOW YOURSELF” 1. In both East and West, we may trace a journey which has led humanity down the centuries to meet and engage truth more and more deeply. It is a journey which has unfolded—as it must—within the horizon of personal self-consciousness: the more human beings know reality and the world, the more they know themselves in their uniqueness, with the question of the meaning of things and of their very existence becoming ever more pressing. This is why all that is the object of our knowledge becomes a part of our life. The admonition Know yourself was carved on the temple portal at Delphi, as testimony to a basic truth to be adopted as a minimal norm by those who seek to set themselves apart from the rest of creation as “human beings”, that is as those who “know themselves”. Moreover, a cursory glance at ancient history shows clearly how in different parts of the world, with their different cultures, there arise at the same time the fundamental questions which pervade human life: Who am I? Where have I come from and where am I going? Why is there evil? What is there after this life? These are the questions which we find in the sacred writings of Israel, as also in the Veda and the Avesta; we find them in the writings of Confucius and Lao-Tze, and in the preaching of Tirthankara and Buddha; they appear in the poetry of Homer and in the tragedies of Euripides and Sophocles, as they do in the philosophical writings of Plato and Aristotle. They are questions which have their common source in the quest for meaning which has always compelled the human heart. In fact, the answer given to these questions decides the direction which people seek to give to their lives. 2. The Church is no stranger to this journey of discovery, nor could she ever be. From the moment when, through the Paschal Mystery, she received the gift of the ultimate truth about human life, the Church has made her pilgrim way along the paths of the world to proclaim that Jesus Christ is “the way, and the truth, and the life” (Jn 14:6). It is her duty to serve humanity in different ways, but one way in particular imposes a responsibility of a quite special kind: the diakonia of the truth.(1) This mission on the one hand makes the believing community a partner in humanity's shared struggle to arrive at truth; (2) and on the other hand it obliges the believing community to proclaim the certitudes arrived at, albeit with a sense that every truth attained is but a step towards that fullness of truth which will appear with the final Revelation of God: “For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully” (1 Cor 13:12). 3. Men and women have at their disposal an array of resources for generating greater knowledge of truth so that their lives may be ever more human. Among these is philosophy, which is directly concerned with asking the question of life's meaning and sketching an answer to it. Philosophy emerges, then, as one of noblest of human tasks. According to its Greek etymology, the term philosophy means “love of wisdom”. Born and nurtured when the human being first asked questions about the reason for things and their purpose, philosophy shows in different modes and forms that the desire for truth is part of human nature itself. It is an innate property of human reason to ask why things are as they are, even though the answers which gradually emerge are set within a horizon which reveals how the different human cultures are complementary. Philosophy's powerful influence on the formation and development of the cultures of the West should not obscure the influence it has also had upon the ways of understanding existence found in the East. Every people has its own native and seminal wisdom which, as a true cultural treasure, tends to find voice and develop in forms which are genuinely philosophical. One example of this is the basic form of philosophical knowledge which is evident to this day in the postulates which inspire national and international legal systems in regulating the life of society. 4. Nonetheless, it is true that a single term conceals a variety of meanings. Hence the need for a preliminary clarification. Driven by the desire to discover the ultimate truth of existence, human beings seek to acquire those universal elements of knowledge which enable them to understand themselves better and to advance in their own self-realization. These fundamental elements of knowledge spring from the wonder awakened in them by the contemplation of creation: human beings are astonished to discover themselves as part of the world, in a relationship with others like them, all sharing a common destiny. Here begins, then, the journey which will lead them to discover ever new frontiers of knowledge. Without wonder, men and women would lapse into deadening routine and little by little would become incapable of a life which is genuinely personal. Through philosophy's work, the ability to speculate which is proper to the human intellect produces a rigorous mode of thought; and then in turn, through the logical coherence of the affirmations made and the organic unity of their content, it produces a systematic body of knowledge. In different cultural contexts and at different times, this process has yielded results which have produced genuine systems of thought. Yet often enough in history this has brought with it the temptation to identify one single stream with the whole of philosophy. In such cases, we are clearly dealing with a “philosophical pride” which seeks to present its own partial and imperfect view as the complete reading of all reality. In effect, every philosophical system, while it should always be respected in its wholeness, without any instrumentalization, must still recognize the primacy of philosophical enquiry, from which it stems and which it ought loyally to serve. Although times change and knowledge increases, it is possible to discern a core of philosophical insight within the history of thought as a whole. Consider, for example, the principles of non-contradiction, finality and causality, as well as the concept of the person as a free and intelligent subject, with the capacity to know God, truth and goodness. Consider as well certain fundamental moral norms which are shared by all. These are among the indications that, beyond different schools of thought, there exists a body of knowledge which may be judged a kind of spiritual heritage of humanity. It is as if we had come upon an implicit philosophy, as a result of which all feel that they possess these principles, albeit in a general and unreflective way. Precisely because it is shared in some measure by all, this knowledge should serve as a kind of reference-point for the different philosophical schools. Once reason successfully intuits and formulates the first universal principles of being and correctly draws from them conclusions which are coherent both logically and ethically, then it may be called right reason or, as the ancients called it, orthós logos, recta ratio. 5. On her part, the Church cannot but set great value upon reason's drive to attain goals which render people's lives ever more worthy. She sees in philosophy the way to come to know fundamental truths about human life. At the same time, the Church considers philosophy an indispensable help for a deeper understanding of faith and for communicating the truth of the Gospel to those who do not yet know it.

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